Interview with a High Warlord

[Frybread]

The difficulty with World of Warcraft’s PvP system is decay. After a couple months you can climb your way to rank 10, but if you slack off and get a job, watch a few movies with your friends or go out of town on the weekend, you’ll be back to rank 9. To climb the ranks in WoW you have to play constantly. There is no such thing as vacation. There are no holidays, no leniency. The system is more of a hardass than any boss and needier than any girlfriend.

5 hours every day might seem like a lot of time. 35 hours per week, a full time job in France. In World of Warcraft it’s enough to get you in the best guilds, drop the biggest monsters and wear the best raid gear.

But it’s not enough to get rank 14.

Having climbed to rank 13 myself, the 6 pieces of equipment I received were the result of the most time-consuming, life-dominating, and utterly tedious game I’ve ever played. That includes every MMORPG, MUD, and console game dating back to my Atari in the dawn of the 80’s.

At first I thought capture the flag in WoW was fun, but after three months of seeing the exact same map over and over, 8 to 12 hours per day, I was on the edge of insanity. My job and my relationships were in a sharp decline. I’d stare at the screen and it would no longer make sense, I’d summon my mount while carrying the flag (causing it to drop into the hands of the other team), my groupmates would threaten to replace me unless I started playing like I used to, and my friends stopped being annoyed and instead became genuinely concerned.

	"What I do is not PvP, it's cp farming" - Kaliko

Since it was the same map over and over, mastering the battleground by learning all the nooks and crannies and knowing how to engage different classes was accomplished early on, and after that there was no way to become a better player. For comparison, in Quake or Unreal’s CTF games the map would change, or the server admin would turn gravity off or something to switch things up, but in Warcraft nothing changes, and soon playing in the battleground becomes as tedious as waiting in the queue.

Knowing rank 14 was another month away, I stopped at 13. I didn’t have what it takes, and my groupmates let me know – I liked to sleep 8 hours a night on weekends and that was unacceptable. Anyone who is able to get rank 14 is most likely a student or unemployed, but more importantly they have monk-like patience. They are beyond casual gamers, hardcore gamers, or any other type you can name. They are in a class of their own, having played 60+ hour weeks continuously for months, on the same unchanging map, with the same items, sometimes without blinking.

After much more searching than I expected, I found a few rank 14’s who were still online and willing to speak. This is what they said:

Kaliko – Warrior on Frostmane (pvp) – Horde
Medeve- Priest on Emerald Dream (rp-pvp) - Alliance
Bosco – Warlock on Gorgonnash (pvp) – Horde

(Terminology: “cp” = honor points, you get them for competing in battlegrounds. “honor cap” = an agreement between the top players to limit the amount of honor they get. "dk" = dishonorable kills. “HWL” = High Warlord, the name for a rank 14 horde player. “GM” = Grand Marshall, the name for a rank 14 alliance player.)

Frybread: Do you think it's normal for it to be so hard to find any Rank 14's online? Are they just exhausted or what?
Medeve whispers: in most cases rank 14 is synonymous with retired
Kaliko whispers: yeah they’re exhausted, most hwl's want to pvp, but instead it's all about a cp grind


Honor Points
Frybread: How much CP was required to obtain standing 1 last week?
Medeve whispers: 675, but I had finals that week and wasn't able to play for a few days, luckily a lot of really cool people backed off the last couple days and let me pass them, if they didn't it would have been around 800 probably
Kaliko whispers: 855k
Bosco whispers: 708 thousand honor points


*In an efficient PvP group with no queue times, honor is obtained at the rate of about 10k to 12k per hour.

Worthwhile
Frybread: Would you say the equipment is worth it? I mean, for the amount of time required and all. How does it compare to top-end PvE raid gear?
Medeve whispers: The marshal to grand marshal gear is better in pvp for most classes because of the stamina, but in most cases not that much better. Some classes it isn't really even worth going for rank 14 like mage, or druid. Paladins have it the worst i think though, none of the pvp gear is really worthwhile for them. Some of the new AQ melee weapons are too close to being as good as the rank 14 ones, given the amount of effort rank 14 takes, nothing should really compare to it.
Bosco whispers: The HWL stuff needs to be better. It’s mostly noncaster, and even the upgrades in 1.11 aren’t good enough for the amount of time I spent. Raiding only requires like 5 hours a night, pvp requires all day every day almost.
Kaliko: for pvp you mean right? The armor is fine for pvp, but there is stuff you can get from MC and BWL that’s much better.

Frybread: Would you do it again?
Bosco whispers: no id quit playing if i was told i had to do it again. it drives people to quit the game.

Frybread: So why the push to 14 then?
Bosco whispers: well just to feel like i completed the whole thing.
Kaliko whispers: i would just think if i don't get this now.. i just wasted 2 months of my life. no point in getting 13 and not go for 14

Time
Frybread: How much effort does it take, really? From start to finish?
Medeve whispers: rank 4 - 14 took me about 5 months of finishing top 10 standing every week, usually top 6
Bosco whispers: like 5 months
Bosco whispers: i pugged for 3 of those
Frybread: How much would you play daily?
Medeve whispers: 14-15 hours average
Frybread: Did you put in any sleepless nights?
Bosco whispers: if you call 1-3 hours [of sleep] max then yeah i put in quite a bit.

Honor Cap

	"The new AQ melee weapons are too close to being as good as the rank 14 ones, given the amount of effort rank 14 takes, nothing should compare to it." - Medeve

Frybread: Was an honor cap used on your server, and what is your opinion on it?
Kaliko whispers: I think the honor cap benefits the entire server.
Medeve whispers: well the idea is for it to benefit everyone, but I was the first one they did it for and obviously I benefited the most
Bosco whispers: there is a cap, however there are sometimes those who compete against it so the cap is raised

Frybread: How often was the honor cap followed?
Kaliko whispers: the honor cap only worked for one week in my 3 month drive
Bosco whispers: it was ongoing; we had to raise it every week
Medeve whispers: some people from different guilds created a group, and were in full competition against my old guild.

	"they said i had an addiction, they wanted me to see a doctor." - Kaliko

Botting
Frybread: How common is it for more than one person to play a single account in order to help them gain rank?
Medeve whispers: about 2/3rds of the people have had multiple people play their account regularly, but that was generally only for maybe 4 hours a day, and only one rank 14 did the 24/7 shifting between three or four people week after week.
Bosco whispers: there are a few
Kaliko whispers: it happens all the time since theres no honor cap, im one of the only ones who didn’t do it.


Social Life
Frybread: What did you have to give up in your social life for this rank?
Kaliko whispers: I took a break from school.. haha i basically became a bum with a house and a computer. no social life.
Frybread: didn't you say you had a girlfriend?
Kaliko whispers: yup.. i told her not to see me cause i had to play WoW =]
Frybread: What did your friends think?
Kaliko whispers: they said i had an addiction, they wanted me to see a doctor
Medeve whispers: I'm kind of a loner as it is, but apart from talking to a few friends between classes my time was pretty much spent on either school or wow
Bosco whispers: it was tough i gained weight doing it and im a skinny guy. I was off work pretty much same with social life
Frybread: did your friends or family worry about you?
Bosco whispers: yeah they did lol i almost was forced to quit
Bosco whispers: almost lost my girlfriend
Frybread: How did you talk her down? Seriously, a lot of guys would like to know how you did it. This seems a common problem for High Warlords.
Bosco whispers: haha explained the system and how i would stop the ridiculous amount of gameplay she didnt know until i was almost done luckily

PvP Changes
Frybread: Is there anything you’d change with the PvP system?
Medeve whispers: more BGs, no DKs.
Bosco whispers: dk's should change.
Kaliko whispers: yea.. honestly would like to see World PVP.. and with the rank system it is fucked up haha.. it's basically who has no life contest and/or who can get botted the most.
Kaliko whispers: what i do is not PvP. It is cp farming
Frybread: How do you differentiate PvP from cp farming?
Kaliko whispers: PVP is when you play against other guilds and all those things.. and cp farming is basically finding the most efficient way on getting as much cp in the amount of time you have.
Frybread: So you're playing a system rather than players?
Kaliko whispers: yup, people need to understand that to get high warlord you are competing against your own team (horde in my case), not the alliance.


PvP Group Advice
Frybread: Getting a good PvP group is the best way to farm honor. What advice would you give to someone who wants in on one of these elite, picky groups?
Kaliko whispers: Know how to play your class in every pvp battlegrounds and get lucky that they notice
Bosco whispers: well my advice would be to be a leader. It seems we lack people who take charge and form a group with a vent or ts server to do organized pvp.
Medeve whispers: well i was lucky, the guild i wanted in was in need of priests, so it wasn't much problem for me there. As for getting into the group that now runs pvp, basically i got up early and got in when they still had spots. Don't get discouraged if you get kicked out of groups for regulars or higher ranks, eventually it will be your turn. Really just be proactive, i've made alot of groups too when none were up.


Frybread: If you had a son and he wanted to be high warlord, what would you tell him?
Medeve whispers: i would probably laugh and tell him to make sure he gets a comfy chair, of couse child services would probably take him away from me.
Bosco whispers: its not worth the time
Kaliko whispers: Good luck and be ready to gain weight and lose all your credibility with your friends.

[Runned]

the best part wasn't even in the interview

5/29 21:13:46.515 [1. General] Crowgoddess: Need 8 people to sign charter for The Named Ones your not obligated to stay you can leave as soon as you like thank you and pst
5/29 21:13:53.843 To Bosco: What rank did you get to pugging?
5/29 21:13:57.140 Bosco whispers: i was at the endings of a pvp guild legacy of enders
5/29 21:13:57.593 [1. General] Shamanface: money?
5/29 21:14:07.859 Bosco whispers: 12
5/29 21:14:12.593 To Bosco: christ
5/29 21:14:16.906 [1. General] Omaeri: dont b gay
5/29 21:14:17.156 To Bosco: that's hardcore
5/29 21:14:19.578 [1. General] Crowgoddess: i would like some to LOL
5/29 21:14:27.234 [1. General] Shamanface: lol
5/29 21:14:39.906 To Bosco: So how did you finally get a group?
5/29 21:14:44.062 [1. General] Shamanface: omaeri - its common for people to pay for guild signatures
5/29 21:14:52.375 [1. General] Shamanface: n00b
5/29 21:14:57.953 [1. General] Omaeri: haha fag
5/29 21:15:09.562 [1. General] Shamanface: quit talkin bout urself
5/29 21:15:11.750 Bosco whispers: i pretty much pestered a guy who was leader until i got in
5/29 21:15:14.250 [1. General] Crowgoddess: well i know that but no im not giving money away
5/29 21:15:21.906 [1. General] Shamanface: ok idc
5/29 21:15:25.625 [1. General] Omaeri: good thing that wasnt a gay comeback

[Frybread]

hahaha

[Alihja]

This is hot stuff.

[Spike Dude]

I stopped at Rank 11. My eyes were bleeding when I stopped. The black raptor was totally worth the 5 hours of sleep a day. How people can get beyond rank 11 is beyond me...

[Gaston]

I received a dishonorable discharge for making passes at my C.O. I was totally kidding but no one would believe me.

[Siddhartha]

I'm pretty sure I quit at rank 3. Battlegrounds were pointless to me and World PvP was nonexistent so I switched to EQ2.

[Eaglie]

Last rank I had was Sergeant when I quit in January. Maybe if and when I restart my account, I'll go for rank 5 or 6.

Maybe, just maybe, there'll be some real change to PvP like they say there will be in patch 1.12, and WoW PvP'll not be a cp grind. But who the hell am I kidding? I don't think anyone can stop the people with the most time from taking the top spots... I don't think there's any real way of stopping that without adding... gasp... a death penalty.

[Unregistard]

does this mean blart is gunna come back and hang out with us punters again? plz say YES omg doit!

[Frybread]

Someone left this comment on this article elsewhere, reposting it here:

Hit 14 this tuesday.
Took a quarter off school, had my cell phone DC so I wouldnt be tempted to know what was going on outside, had my gf basically ditch me, and created barriers between friends ive known for over a decade. The sad part is, the people that make it usually, are attracted to such a challenge, nothing is worth anything if it doesnt take sacrifice. I spent over 500 dollars this last month on 2 things.
Diet mountain dew (More caffine than regular)
And alchohol, its the only way I could endure playing, to be totally numb, detatched and non-challant, only when I was within a week did I stop drinking to maintain optimal reaction time and maximize my playtime. Im fairly lucky, the higherst I ever had to go was abit over 700k, but that was all by myself.
I worked 40 hours per week, and spent 55+ in wsg, IN wsg, not counting queues. I borrowd over 500 gold form guidlies that last month to repair gear that was damaged during pvp, and combat pots.
I configured my bills so that I could pay them alt-tabbed while in queue with online banking. Luckily i make my own scheduel at work, so I was able to work 40 hour per week, and still be on by primetime 5 nights per week, but not have to come in before noon, so i could play past reset when the 5v5 games would come and we could 3-0 in 5 minutes with 3 druids, and sleep 4 hours, work for about 9, come home, shower, sit a case of soda or beer in my lap and pvp until I was going to pass out, get up, eat raw tuna or a hot pocket (thats all I could afford) while in queue.

But I hit hard.

It's good to hear it straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak, that WOW's PVP system is FUBAR to Hell and back. Sadly, a million of these articles probably won't do shit to make the developers actually go back and do something. It's gonna take the game loosing 2-3 million players in a few months.

And as we have seen in this very article, the addictive nature of WOW tend to make people pay gold for copper every month...

Haha rly nice interview! I stopped farming WSG after rank10 myself :P

I wish they'd do away with the whole PVP system, because there is no way they're going to be able to fix it. There is no such thing as skill in a gear-based game. That 82 DPS 2Her is going to kill you, no matter how well you can play your class. I have a lot of friends who have hit rank 14 and quit the game, others who didn't make it past 12 and quit the game. As an old UO PVPer, this game's PVP system makes me sick to my stomach.

Kaella

Yah the PvP grind is a pain I walked away at rank 13 since I was a priest at the time there where no weapons worth my time so I didn't go to 14. Lots of I was lucky that I had a room mate that would feed me so that I didn't pass out from lack of food. I was also lucky to have the backing of what I feel is one of the strongest PvP guilds in the game called Local Defense on Skullcrusher. We have been using the caps since the guild was created in October and only a few weeks have we been forced to push them really high. I was only really hitting 600 to get to FM and only did that twice. The fact is that the guild has the honor system down to a science we calculate every GM. We have had a total of 23 GM's and we have had double GM's in a week 5 times now. If you know what you are doing you can run the numbers and just turn it into a grind.

I just hit rank 7. Some weeks I go forward and some back but I strictly play for fun, and mostly just in Alterac Valley. I can't see doing the climb to 14. Heck, though I'd love the mount, I can't see the climb to 11 either. As a member of a small guild if we have no raids going, then it's either PUG PVE raids or PUG BGs and lately I've preferred PUG BGs. I can feel the curve starting to kick in though even down here at lowly knight-lieutenant and I know I don't have the patience to tolerate the climb once it becomes "work".

[Frybread]

From Rexfelis (ally hunter) on Mug'thol

Being the first rank 14 on Archimonde and probably one of the few first rank 14's across all servers, I would have to say my experience was somewhat different. I started when the honor system first came out and everything was based on kill honor. With diminishing returns you could pretty much farm the server within 6-8 hours a day. Anything past that would only help you marginally.

When BGs came out everyone and their dog did WSG because they no longer had to depend on kills, but rather the so called "bonus honor" which is really the current system's primary honor. I believe I was rank 10 by this time which was 1 rank below the top 3. They pretty much blew me away the first week because they were either school kids skipping school or they were just bums doing nothing. Finally something incredible happened. Bonus honor was taken out by accident for two weeks straight and once again it was back to straight kill honor. My honor for the next two weeks was 50% higher than the person who had standing 2. I went from rank 11 to 13 in two weeks straight.

The last 2-3 weeks were hell. WSG started up again and I was forced to run org groups all day long when I really did not want to. I prefer to solo so that way I can place the mistakes for losing or dying on myself and not have to rely on others. Fortunately I found a solid group of cool players and we did really well. After two more weeks I thought I would hit rank 14 and it turned out I hit 13 and 99.9%. It really sucked knowing that I would have to continue the grind one more week, but finally hit rank 14 the last week.

I did all of this with 3 kids, a software development job at a large well known corporation, and a 2-3 hour total drive to work every day. Luckily my wife is also a player and was very patient and understanding. I only did it for the possibility of being the first rank 14 on the server and wouldn't have done it otherwise I think. The melee weapons are some of the best a hunter can get, but the ranged weapons were a joke and even with the normalization patch still are. They were designed piss poor with the bow being way too fast at 1.9 and the xbow still being too fast for pvp at 2.9. Seriously they need to be 2.9 for the bow and 3.4 for the xbow to truely be worth even a $!@% for how hard rank 14 was. Nothing in BWL should even compare to rank 14 weapons given how much time, effort, and stress they took to obtain. Ashkandi's and Shadow Flame staves are dropping like hot cakes in our BWL runs to people who sometimes only play (not raid) once a week for 3 hours.

Last of all (I know this is a long post) the major problem was the introduction of bonus honor. I can't stress that enough. A skills based individual ranking system MUST be based on how well people can kill. The system was that way until people starting living off of bonus honor in BGs. Before BGs all of the high ranking players were those that could kill well by themselves and didn't rely on having 3-4 badass healers following them everywhere. Grouping with people killed your ability to get good honor from kills and so did zerging targets. Nowadays people think the best players are those that run with ton of support classes simply because they are hard to kill that way, yet are a joke when by themselves. The system will always suck as long as the bonus honor is unending, not capped, and in the very least not diminshed.

Medeve has skill.

Have been fun grinding beside him, had still some fun doing it cause the PvP group was a cool bunch of player.

I stopped at rank 12, already bored of WSG and too much competition for rank 13 vs my free time.

Good luck for those want go for rank 14, hope you can get a Cap to work.

<- Bout was there

(always forget to sign)

Personally I'm rank 10 and have been for quite some time, it's about all I can go for with work etc.

However, I've known four people that have made GM/HW in the past, one fairly recently, and I've got to say I think the doing of it is crazy. These people lost their friends, both in game and out, and generally became so sleep deprived they were straight up depressed, even hating what they were doing. The 'grind' to rank 14 destroys people, and to be honest with you, I'll never understand why they do it.

And the really sad part is, they'll probably hardly play those characters again, it was just "something to do". Worrying, very worrying.

I can totally sympathize with how crappy the PvP system is in WoW and how it has been destroying my friend's lives. My friends and I all started with UO, then EQ, but MMOs were not our thing... it was Quake and Starcraft that was really popular among us. WoW seemed like it would produce a good combination of MMO and PvP. Unfortunately, the system requires little actual PvP skill and a ton of inhuman "stick-to-it-ness" to grind the CP required. This is not to say that the rank 14s and any one else who does the grind is not a worthy gamer, but rather, if the WoW system required more skill, there would be far less, um, background noise in order to achieve that high rank. My friends are slowly becoming cynical about WoW as their humanity fades from them into a pit of CP, rankings, and grinding.
This interview is very good, and it indirectly addresses the problems of this unique addiction.

Originally Posted by Frybread

Someone left this comment on this article elsewhere, reposting it here:

This is one of the scaryest sites I have ever sat down to read. I'm currently Rank 9, half way to 10 and have noticed many of the same things happening to me that have happened to all of you. I recently have lost contact with my girlfriend (not sure if we are still going out) and yes, I too have stoped going out with friends and started eating hotpockets also lol. Whats worst is that we have/had been going out for over 5 years! And look, I have only been pvping for a short time compared to all of you, about 1.5 months! This didn't seem like a big problem to me and honestly thanks to this site I don't think I will spend the time to get GM even if I have the buddies I need to help me get it. To do so is a waste of time, money, friendship, and basicly LIFE just to say "you know I was a GM/HWL in World of Warcraft." You have nothing to show for all your hard work and many times we forget that this is only a game. Thank you for this site, I just hope I found it in time. If anyone would like to talk to me about this my char name is Wilclcarcl on the sever of Shadow Moon. /salute

sobering

Boo hoo. This is what I like about the game. The real world isn't fair, why do people expect 'god' to come help them out in this one.

Some people work dead end jobs and make very little money, while contributing more to society than some joe schmoe who got lucky with a cushy job with all kinds of perks. Things aren't always balanced in the real world, why does everything need an even balance in Warcraft. Stop playing if it bugs you that much. The cp grind isn't for most. Run some dungeons get some good loot, and go back to playing bg's and have fun with them.

it interesting how all these unemployed people who might struggle to hold down a good job or study can manage to have so much self control, time managment and perservierance.

Just imagine if they could put that much effort into a job, study, the community or family.

I think i got to rank 6 and i found myself wanting to put more effort in and do it well, even though there was no chance i could put in the time required for it with university and work. I decided to remove myself from the game and although I don't think wow is an evil game, it was taking me over.

WoW is a game, its meant to be fun

GL HF

[Taldren]

It is not the decay that is the issue, it is the fact that the rewards are tied directly to a rank value. If, instead, blizzard would give out a token commision based on rank that was needed to buy the rewards ... going on vacation wouldn't be an issue.

To give you an example, consider the following changes to the current system:

1.0 Leave the ladder system - As I said, the ladder system itself isn't the issue, it is the fact that the rewards themselves are directly tied too the ladder position.

2.0 Every Tuesday when the ranks/standings are calculated, reward each rank (after adjustment for the week) X number of credits (tokens) as their commission for service to their respective factions as long as the minimum 25 HKs for that week was achieved.
2.1 The tokens need to be able to stack up to a great number and be non-destroyable.
2.2 The number of tokens granted are based on the rank of the person in question.

3.0 PvP rewards would now only be sold at a token cost.
3.1 BG Potions would cost tokens and expanded to include things like free action pots.
3.1.1 These pots would have to be limited to the BGs.
3.2 Armor would be upgradeable, but each upgrade would cost more tokens.
3.2.1 The 'blue' PvP set would just be one step in the upgrade to the 'epic' set.

This system allows for casual game play without the threat of being completely passed over. Hard-Core gamers will still get the rewards first, but eventually even the most casual of player can own the equipment ... one day. The token granted by each rank would have to be tweaked in order to make higher ranks much more appealing.

Vacations will no longer kill your advancement as you will only lose a maximum of one rank in your commision of tokens for that week.

This system also allows blizzard to add new rewards without the need for everyone to fight their way up the ladder and upsetting a lot of long time players.

Another benefit to this system is that friends, guild mates, and realm mates are not 'screwing' each other over by competing in the system anymore. The current system has same-faction players angrier with each other then the people they are supposed to be at war with, which greatly takes away from the whole experience.

I posted this on both the WoW Suggestion forums and the PvP forums and the feedback has been completely positive. If you wish to keep up with them the links are ...

PvP Forum Thread
Suggestion Forum Thread

If you are reading this, then thank you for taking the time to read my point of view on this issue.

Taldren - Azgalor server.

i did rank 13. i hit rank 13 the same week as the first two rank 14 on the server. several players could have reached 14 before but they gave up because they lacked a reliable group. the group we formed consisted of three players that had rank 14 chars on other servers plus some of their friends plus some lucky pickups like me. sadly, i had to explain the system to them - its true, they didnt know a damn thing about it. on their old server they simply played 24/7.

i also introduced addons to track the amount of honor we achieved. finally we could plan the weekly standings precisely, with less than 1k honor between each of the top 5 players. i explained the 20% decay every week and that it hits higher ranks harder and therefor its crucial that the weekly standings represent exactly the order of who is sceduled to hit a rank first and when. in my 9 weeks of hardcore battleground i placed second 8 times and first one time. i knew when i would reach 13 from the very beginning.

well, when you place first you'll get 13k points. second place (with literally no distance between me and first place) varied between 12.4-12.7k on my server, third place only brought 12-12.2k.
every week one fifth of you current points are getting lost. you need 60k points for rank 14. so in that final week when you start off with 59k and want to reach 60k about 12k are blown into orbit. not placing first is desastrous in that final week for the ongoing rank 14 players. cant explain that to all the nooby greenhorn kiddies out there often enough testing their limits during the holidays or something, not knowing that they wont benefit enough from placing first to make up the tremendous kick in the ass for this rank 13 in his final week. cant get more than 13k points - blizzard out.

luckily our group was beyond competition. someone stays close by being online day and night? np, we just added another 100k. most of the other ambitious players on my server alliance side dropped pvp at rank 11 because we sat duck on place 1-5 and usually placed 1-10 with only very few exceptions in those 9 weeks.

i quit wow some time ago, the bills dont pay from alone and interests change. but i enjoyed the time, it felt like work, our team was brilliant and we were extremely successful in what we did. the group as working unit still exsists although faces changed, because everyone of the old crew has achieved his goal. now they can afford to play only 4 days hardcore in a week. they take a break on sunday and inspect the others in the evening. if someone is close simply add another 100k. those three guys i mentioned all hit 14 for the second time and so did some others. on the horde side nobody did but two at the very beginning. my char still is the only rank 13 mage on this server.

so thats what pvp is all about: maths, leading skills and a ruff neck.


to those that want to remove bonos honor: this idea can only come from one of the top solo pvp classes with little to no downtime between the victims! hunters, warlocks, rogues, some shamans and some shadowpriests. try to think in a mages view. if i wanted to kill quickly i had to burn all my mana, resulting in a 1 minute downtime leaving me extremely vulnerable. fact is, some classes have advantages comparing to others in fast solo pvp. favorising group pvp in the honor system is more fair to all, especially since wow is a MASSIVLYMULTIPLAYERorpg. i do not like the way it works now though. could think of removing dishonorably kills and giving 50k honor points for every member of the raid that kills a fraction boss

bye and hf
vlad from nazjatar
(ps: dont pinpoint me at the facts :P)

forgot about the 4-kills-a-day-thing. dont forget: killing someone more than 4 times a day results in extra honor for you. killing someone by dealing only a bit damage while someone else does the main damage is evil, you'll get only a tiny bit of honor but the kill counts full.

gn8
vlad

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Boo hoo. This is what I like about the game. The real world isn't fair, why do people expect 'god' to come help them out in this one.

Some people work dead end jobs and make very little money, while contributing more to society than some joe schmoe who got lucky with a cushy job with all kinds of perks. Things aren't always balanced in the real world, why does everything need an even balance in Warcraft. Stop playing if it bugs you that much. The cp grind isn't for most. Run some dungeons get some good loot, and go back to playing bg's and have fun with them.

Because we don't pay a monthly subscription to God in order to live, that's why things should be balanced in WoW. World of Warcraft is a good idea that has a lot of promise but it seems Blizzard loves to spread the WoW cheeks and ram it repeatedly. Real life isn't fair, that's true, but don't get WoW confused with real life.

Also, I definately think killing racial leaders should result in a massive amount of honor.

It's crazy to think about the lengths that some of us will go to achieve something in WoW. Sleepless nights are just the beginning. What are we doing, is WoW fun? It's all grinding and is more work than a game. Why is it so addicting? I think what I like most about it is that it's such an in-depth game. A large world, with (for the most part) unique races with a couple different ways to customize character models. It just had something other MMO's didn't provide. And I loved how the lore tied into the game, a lot of the game had history. I think the biggest reason I play is because I love to play games with my friends.

FFXI was an awesome game, the levels were just out of whack. If you were lvl 5, you might be able to take a level 10. But if you're a level 57, you can barely (if that) take a level 30~ Plus, exp is VERY slow. A very good friend who is on A LOT (I still see this guy on whenever I randomly log on, he's been playing for 5 years!!) took a whole year to get to the highest level in FFXI. Insane.

I wonder why people spend ungodly amount of time torturing themselves in a game... it's really fascinating because I am one of them and I don't have a clue!

Soon rank 10 - which means Champion (yes - horde!) and finally done with this crap. Not so much the endless fights and honorfarming, but the more and more hostile and childish enviroment that`s starting to destroy the battlegrounds.

At first - yeah - it was fun to do something else then the pvE-content of the server. But after a while, I not only saw the need to keep it all a game. Log on, play a few hours - raid with the guild - and try to keep it F U N.

Getting rank 14 is an achievement - sure - but tbh, I can`t be bothered.

Just wasnted to know if i should start playing WoW

HI, i hit rank 14 about month ago, it was more less half year honor grinding. For start it was easy just plaing when i wanted to, but last 3 months it was hardcore.

At our server were elite team which were outhonoring other ppl. Well as someone posted here, it's affecting all your faction, the higher honor 1st standing has the less points other ppl gets.

There is something like Max Progress each week, with standing 1st you got 100% of max progress, and the others depends how much you othonor them will get 95% 90% 80% (or any other % of max progress).

We had an agreement we let some high ranked players to get their rank 14, so they won't compete with us anymore.

The old "elite team" were setting up standings but not honor, so they were progressing slowly (i'm mad at them for that :]) of course 1st standing got his max progress each time, but the others in queue not so in fact they were slowing others after them.

When i finnaly reach rank 13 i had 2% of it, so i needed at least 4 weeks to reach rank 14, and i decided for it.

We had an agreement to have same ammount of honor with 4 ppl but the one actually going for HW fucked us up, he cheated on we ppl lost points becouse of him, and he did it twice, first time he said it was accident, now i know he was hiding marks of honor.

Well when i he was off, and i was just 2 weeks before rank 14 we set our honor with friend and i had 2 times 100% max progress, and he had 99% first time and 99,9% max progress next time. But setting honor is very hard, especially other players still play.

50-59 players were driving us mad, at horde side they are winning each BG very easy, when i was 59 i won 30 AB batlles in a row one day, and 1/5 of it was like in 5 min. We coulnd't set low honor cap becouse of them, and we were affraid of ninja ppl, you can;t control everyone.

I was very lucky at my last week i needed just 272k honor. Last day i was so tired but i was online, and i din't play i had agreement honor was set, and my friend couldn't play so i didn't cheat him, but i was inspecting everyone.

I think it was lowest 1standing score for a long time, and now it's higher again. When i was leading elite team i tried to not force everyone to much it's no need to play so much if only ppl you're compete are in your team.

But at AB weekend really 50-59 could make crazy ammount of honor, i was lucky my last week was without any bonus.

I wouldn't decide again for that, too much effort for this crappy rewards. Ofc items are good, but not worth of it.

Alliance. We were palying a lot we had a good team, so we were kicking ass of almost every alliance pvper at our server. We were playing 12+h per day so were just good, but they were jealous, they are alliance they are best it's impossible that someone beaten them without cheat, flaming started at forums, all previous HWs had it, flaming flaming flaming, i couldn't sleep becouse of it, some ppl left our team, it wasn't easy.

Oh well, i got what i wanted from the begining but it costed far too much, no more honor grind.

unbelievable

Guys, can someone confirm something for me about the Diminishing Returns?

Consider these 2 scenarions:

1) You're in AV, going solo. You kill the same 4 times doing all the damage. You get ~200 cp first kill, ~150 cp second kill, ~100 cp third kill, ~50 fourth kill and 1 kill after that. All in all you get ~500 cp for a given player, before DR screws you over.

2) You're in AV, this time in the zerg. Again you kill a player 4 times, except each time there happens to be 10 other players near enough to split the cp. So you end up getting 20+15+10+5 = 50 honor, and you can't really get more before DR resets.

So you can't really make up for the honor split by getting that much more kills when grouped, because DR screws you over that much faster?

OR, is the system smart enough to consider that you're grouped and doesn't apply the DR unless the same amount of honor has been rewarded from killing the same player solo?

I'm currently rank 11, going for 12 and I usually go solo in AV after seeing how abyssmally low amount of non-bonus honor you get in AV if you're in the zerg, even if you end up with thousands of HKs. I'm on a server with over 3:1 A:H ratio and I pretty much have to rely on kill cp, seeing as on Alliance we get into BGs maybe once an hour if we're lucky (and yes that's when I queue for all 3 at the same time).

Haha, alliance sucks!

yes it works like you described, but when you're in raid in AV you are also getting Hks from other ppl kills, becouse you get honor based on damaged done by you (solo) or your group (raid)

No offense mate but you totally missed my point, which is that the substantially larger amount of kills you get in raids doesn't, and cannot compensate for the honor loss because of Diminishing Returns.

Again, a (theoretical) example:

You kill every enemy player in AV 4 times, miraculously without any help from your own faction every time. As solo, you get up to ~500 cp for each player before DR drops the honor down to 1, so you can get up to 20k cp from kills.

In zerg, the maximum amount on the other hand is 50 (assuming the honor is split to 10 players every time), per enemy player so the maximum you can possibly get is 2k. No matter of you get 10, 50 or 100 times more HKs in the raid (because you were near when your teammates killed someone, for example), you end up with 2k cp instead of 20k.

I was going to try to hit Grand Marshal by starting my endurance next month. But after reading this I changed my mind, I thank you for this.

People keep saying that rank 14 weapons/armor should be much better than BWL/AQ weapons/armor but keep in mind that raiding succesfully requires 40 people.... 40, and they all have to know what to do and communicate and then there's still the risk of having a Ninja amongst you and ofcourse there's the loot. 3/4 pieces max i believe that have to be distributed over 40 people...
The weapons are fine. Just look at the players required/time spent ratio, its either - many players and not so much - time or - one player and alot of time -.
I guess its the fact that the person playing 24/7 to achieve High Warlord/ Grand Marshal status IS working all alone (or with a small team) and therefore expects greater rewards, it's understandable but i still think the rewards are fairly balanced, i woulndt mind seeing the rank 14 items increase in power though.

Another interview with a High Warlord (Orc Warrior, Argent Dawn EU): http://www.voiceofwarcraft.com/?p=65

If you want to grind for higher ranks, it doesn't have to turn out bad. As long as you won't ignore your friends if they ask you to go out, and have the discipline to say 'WoW doesn't last forever, if I get an invite in RL, I'll take it and leave WoW for a few hours'.